Cherry Ward

Information for patients and their family, friends and carers

Questionnaires and feedback

Patients who are able to will be invited to complete a ‘Patient Experience Questionnaire’ and a ‘Friends and Family Test’ towards the end of their admission. Family/friends/carers will be invited to complete a ‘Carer’s Questionnaire’, and may be asked to complete a ‘Friends and Family Test’ if the patient is unable to do so. The feedback from all of these questionnaires is amalgamated and used to review how we can continue to develop and improve the service provided on Cherry Ward. We welcome any suggestions and feedback you have. Should patients or family/friends/carers have any compliments or identify areas you feel we could improve on during a patient’s stay, we would encourage you to discuss these with ward staff during the patient’s admission. For further information, please speak to a member of staff.

Additional information

There are a large number of information leaflets produced by CWP. A selection of these can be found in the leaflet rack in the entrance to Cherry Ward. If there are further leaflets that you would like that are not available, please speak to a member of staff. We hope that you find this information leaflet useful. Please do not hesitate to speak to any of the ward staff for help, advice or for more information.

Introduction

Welcome to Cherry Ward. Cherry Ward is an 11-bedded assessment and treatment ward for people living with dementia. The ward is part of Cheshire and Wirral Partnership NHS Foundation Trust (“CWP”). Cherry Ward is situated in Bowmere Hospital, on the Countess of Chester Health Park site in Chester. The Ward Manager is Henk Vermeulen. People who access our services are welcome to talk with Henk if you would like to discuss any aspects of the care provided.

Patient Advice and Liaison Service (“PALS”) 
CWP is committed to providing the opportunity for patients and family/ friends/carers to give a compliment, seek advice, raise concerns or make a complaint about the services provided. CWP offers a PALS service, which is a confidential service for patients and carers. Comments, concerns, complaints and compliments may be sent to PALS. PALS will listen to any concerns patients and/or family/friends/ carers may have about the care provided and liaise with services to try and resolve these. 
PALS are available Monday-Friday (except bank holidays), 9:00am-5:00pm and can be contacted via telephone on 0800 195 4462 or via email at cwp.pals@nhs.net. You can also write to: 


PALS FREEPOST RRBA UEGB AZJA 
Patient and Carer Experience Team 
Cheshire and Wirral Partnership NHS Foundation Trust 
Redesmere, Countess of Chester Health Park 
Liverpool Road 
Chester 
CH2 1BQ


There is a leaflet available on the ward about PALS. Please speak to a member of staff if you would like a copy of this for further information.

Further support for people with dementia and their carers

There are local organisations providing support for people living with dementia and their family/friends/carers. Information and contact details for some of these are included below:

Age UK Cheshire

Address: Age UK Cheshire, 314 Chester Road, Hartford, Northwich, CW8 2AB Telephone: 01601 305004 / mobile: 07747 016281 (Anne Farrell)

Alzheimer’s society

There is a local branch of the Alzheimer’s society for West Cheshire: West Cheshire Office, 2nd Floor, Tannery Court, Tanners Lane, Warrington, Cheshire WA2 7NA

Telephone: 0300 369 0570

There is also a website and a national contact number.

Website: www.alzheimers.org.uk/

Telephone: 0300 222 1122

Cheshire West Carer Support

Carer helpline: 0300 102 0008

Neighbourhood Wellness Therapy

Email: cwp.nwt@nhs.net

Telephone: 01244 397 289

Memory Café

Every 4th Wednesday of the month between 14.00 and 15.30 in the Oasis Restaurant in Bowmere hospital

Contact numbers

Please contact the ward office at any time if you wish to speak to staff. Staff may be unavailable if they are supporting patients, particularly at busier times of the day, for example meal times. Please call again if you are unable to get through.

Aims of the ward / philosophy of care

Cherry Ward is a specialist therapeutic environment. Care is provided by dedicated, skilled and experienced staff who are trained in providing dementia care. The care we provide reflects CWP’s commitment to the ‘6 C’s’, which are:

  • Care
  • Compassion
  • Commitment
  • Competence
  • Communication
  • Courage

An individual person-centred care planning process will begin on admission in collaboration with patients and their family/friends/carers, supporting their journey through the assessment process. Each patient will have a named nurse, supported by an associate nurse, who will co-ordinate aspects of the patient’s care. This ensures that patients and their family/friends/carers have an accountable, trained nurse acting as a focus for the care and support they receive. Cherry Ward staff actively encourage family, friends and carers to participate in all relevant aspects of care. Life story work forms an important and valued aspect of care on the ward. This assists staff in providing holistic care tailored to individuals’ needs.

Carer support continued

Carer’s assessment

Carers are entitled to a carer’s assessment if they provide support to a family member or friend who would be unable to manage otherwise without this help. The carer’s assessment is not a test of how well the carer is providing support to the person they are caring for, but to look at how their caring responsibilities impact on their own health and well-being, and their abilities to do the things they want to do in their day to day life. A carer’s assessment can be accessed through the Cheshire West Community Access Team:

E-mail: accesswest@cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk

Telephone: 0300 123 7034

Please speak with a member of the ward staff if you would like more information about this.

Under section 10 of the Care Act the right to assessment for a carer is triggered if it appears to the Local Authority that the carer might need support now or is likely to in the future.

Afternoon tea

We usually facilitate a weekly afternoon tea on Cherry Ward every first Thursday of the month at 3pm in the dining room.

Carer support

Carer Link Nurses

All ward staff are available to discuss any questions or concerns with carers, and to provide informal support. However, we also have Carer Link Nurses on the ward, whose role it is to be there to support carers, so as carers have someone they can talk with and to help them make sense of what may be a difficult situation. Our Carer Link Nurse is recognizable from their yellow lanyard. Our Carer Link Nurse will help to identify and provide personal support to carers as needed. Due to the nature of shifts The Carer Link Nurse may not always be available on the ward when carers are visiting, however carers are able to leave a message with ward staff and the Carer Link Nurse will endeavour to make contact with carers as soon as possible.

GP

Some GP surgeries record the names of carers. This information helps them to make sure that carers receive information about the help and support that is available for carers. Carers can contact their GP surgery if they would like to discuss this or for further information.

What happens on admission

On admission patients will be met by a member of staff and will be shown around the ward and introduced to the staff on duty. A doctor will complete an assessment. Nursing staff will commence a care plan which will be developed during the patient’s admission by staff, with patients and their family/friends/carers. We will ensure that you have information on:

  • Visiting times
  • Reviews
  • Activities
  • Medication
  • Care planning
  • Discharge planning
  • Spiritual care
  • Health and well-being

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Much of this information is included in this booklet. We would like you to have all of the information you need, so please feel free to ask us any questions or to discuss any concerns you may have.

How to access interpreting services

The Trust aims to ensure that a range of translator/interpreter services are provided for those patients and family/friends/carers for whom English is not their first language or who may require communication support. Ward staff can request these services for patients and family/ friends/carers as appropriate.

What to bring and what not to bring to Cherry Ward

Patients require the following items on the ward:

  • Changes of clothing (day wear – we encourage patients to wear daytime attire to maintain dignity and a normal routine)
  • Night wear (including dressing gown for patients to wear in communal areas)
  • Underwear
  • Toiletries including shower gel, bubble bath, shampoo, deodorant, toothbrush and toothpaste, shaving foam/gel and razors if appropriate.
  • Slippers or indoor footwear (please ensure appropriate footwear which is comfortable, well-fitting and supportive)
  • Outdoor footwear
  • A jacket or coat (should patients go out for walks or to attend appointments)
  • Personal belongings such as a book, puzzle books, magazines
  • Small amount of money (if patients would like to buy drinks/snacks or newspapers) Mobility aid(s) the patient usually uses (e.g. zimmer frame)
  • Sensory aids the patient requires (e.g. glasses, hearing aids)

Please ensure that all items are labelled with the patient’s name, to help staff to identify belongings.

Family/friends/carers are asked to launder patients’ clothes please. Please ask staff to obtain any laundry for you during visits. Please ensure that patients have sufficient clothing to cover the time when relatives take laundry home to wash. Some patients may require more than one change of clothing per day.

Confidentiality and information sharing

 

All patients have a right to maintain confidentiality about their treatment whilst they are on the ward and staff can only share information about patients if they have given permission for this. Staff do encourage and promote the involvement of family/friends/carers and if permission is not given, they will revisit this decision on a regular basis with the patient and promote the benefits of family/friends/carers being involved. Staff will be able to share information without consent if the information poses as a risk to the patient and others.

Sometimes, in order to provide effective assessment and treatment, it may be necessary to share information with other agencies. Some patients’ difficulties mean that they are unable to give informed consent. If this is the case, staff will liaise with people who know the patient well and work within best interest principles. All information shared will be treated in accordance with the data protection act. Information may be passed on to other professionals within the care team. All information provided will remain confidential. For further information regarding confidentiality, and protecting and sharing information held by CWP, there is an information leaflet available on the ward entitled ‘Information We Hold’. Please speak to staff if you would like a copy of this.

Accessing health records

You have the right to receive copies of letters about you. However, letters may be withheld if it is thought it may be detrimental for you to receive a copy. To request copies of your personal information, please contact the subject access request team. The Wirral contact details are:

E-mail: cwp.westaccesstohealthrecords2@nhs.net

Telephone: 01244 397346

Please speak to staff if you would like further information on this area.

Advocacy

Advocacy is available to support people who have difficulty expressing their views or wishes effectively. An advocate can represent the views of a person at meetings to ensure each patients’ rights and views are respected and listened to. An advocacy referral can be made following admission to Cherry Ward.

Age UK Cheshire offers a single point of contact for all advocacy enquiries in the area. Age UK Cheshire will perform advocacy triage by offering an information, signposting and referral service for all health and social care related advocacy enquiries. The types of advocacy support available via Age UK Cheshire are:

  • Independent Mental Capacity Advocacy (incl. DoLS)
  • Independent Mental Health Advocacy
  • General Advocacy

Advocacy is independent, free and confidential. It supports your voice and safeguards your rights. To access advocacy, please contact as follows:

Telephone: 01601 305004 / mobile: 07747 016281 (Anne Farrell)

E-mail: anne.farrell@ageukcheshire.org.uk

Address: Age UK Cheshire, 314 Chester Road, Hartford, Northwich, CW8 2AB

There is a leaflet available on the ward with further information about Age UK Cheshire. Please speak to a member of staff if you would like a copy of this.

If patients bring in any personal electronic equipment such as radios or televisions, these will need to be safety checked by CWP staff before they can be used. Ward staff will arrange this. Please do not bring in:

  • Cigarettes or e-cigarettes (vapes are allowed)
  • Any ignition sources such as lighters or matches
  • Alcohol and/or illicit substances
  • Medication
  • Sharp items, including glass (e.g. in photo frames) and mirrors. Please give any razors in to staff.
  • Large amounts of cash
  • Valuable items (including jewellery, expensive clothing, and items of great sentimental value)

Due to the nature of the ward, items may be misplaced and lost. CWP accepts no responsibility for loss or damage to any personal or other property on its premises, except for any personal property deposited with CWP for safekeeping in accordance with Trust policy. Any such property remains the owner’s responsibility and at the owner’s risk. As we cannot be held responsible for cash and/or valuables retained by patients on the ward, we would not recommend these items being brought to the ward. Cash and valuables can be deposited in the patients’ bank at Bowmere Hospital.

We are aware that some patients have hearing aids, dentures and glasses which may be valuable. Please can you make staff aware of this on admission. You may wish to consider taking out your own insurance for such items.

If you are unsure about what items are suitable to be brought onto Cherry Ward, please discuss this with a member of staff.

Ward facilities and layout

The ward provides a fairly spacious environment, with different areas for patients to spend time in, including:

  • Dining room
  • Main lounge
  • Garden lounge (a quieter lounge)
  • Garden space
  • Female quiet lounge
  • Clinic
  • Individual bedrooms with en-suites
  • Shared bathroom

If patients prefer a quieter environment, we do have some quieter spaces where patients can sit. Patients are encouraged to spend time in communal areas. However patients also have their own bedroom and can choose to spend time there if they prefer. Toilets for visitors are available at Bowmere Hospital on the ground floor, opposite the Oasis Restaurant.

Code of conduct on Cherry Ward

We encourage everyone on Cherry Ward to be respectful of each other. Patients all have different needs and require different levels of support, and we ask you to please be tolerant of this. If patients or family/friends/carers feel unhappy or unsafe on Cherry Ward, or have any queries, please discuss these with staff.

Legal status

Sometimes due to the nature of a person’s illness, patients may be admitted under a section of the Mental Health Act. If a patient is detained under a section of the Mental Health Act, a member of staff will inform the patient and their Nearest Relative what this means and what their rights are under the Act. A Nearest Relative is a legally defined term within the Mental Health Act which is different from Next of Kin. Some patients may be under a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (“DOLS”), which is a part of the Mental Capacity Act. Patients also have certain rights if placed on a DOLS, which will be explained to them. There are additional leaflets available on the ward regarding this. Please speak to a member of staff if you would like further information.

Capacity

When patients have capacity to make certain decisions, patients will be provided with the appropriate information to make these decisions, e.g. regarding treatment and discharge planning. However if a patient is assessed as lacking capacity to make these decisions, these will be made under the best interests principles of the Mental Capacity Act. An assessment of a person’s capacity is based on a particular decision at a certain time, therefore some people may have capacity to make certain decisions but not others, and this may also change over time.

If you know that a patient has made an Advanced Statement or an Advanced Decision, please inform a member of staff. If a patient has completed a Lasting Power of Attorney, please also advise staff of this. Patients may not have the capacity to make some decisions, and may not have capacity to sign important​​​​​​​ paperwork, e.g. regarding finances and accommodation. Please do not ask patients to sign any important documents without discussing this with ward staff first.

Falls

The majority of patients on Cherry Ward are identified as being at increased risk of falls, due to various factors such as cognitive impairment, history of falls, medication, and physical health problems. Whilst staff will do their utmost to take measures to reduce the risk of patients falling, we cannot always prevent this. However, there are things that can be done to help reduce the risk of falls:

  • Please advise staff if the patient has a history of falls.
  • Ensure that patients have appropriate slippers and/or footwear available on the ward which fits well and is comfortable.
  • Ensure that patients have their glasses and hearing aids available
  • Ensure that patients have walking aid(s) available

Smoking, alcohol and enhancing health

CWP operates a strict no smoking policy; smoking is not permitted on any hospital site. It is against the law to smoke inside any CWP building and against CWP policy to smoke within the perimeter of trust property. Nicotine replacement therapy is available for all patients. Vapes are allowed, but not e-cigarettes. Please speak to staff if you require any further information about this.

Alcohol and illicit substances are not permitted on the hospital site and will be confiscated if found on an individual’s person. We can provide support and advice for alcohol withdrawal as appropriate.

As a health facility, the ward aims to promote and encourage healthy lifestyles through good diet and exercise. Regular chair-based exercises are facilitated by gym instructors on the ward. We also have a gym at Bowmere Hospital in the Old Chapel for patients and staff . Patients require a referral form to be completed by a doctor, and the gym instructor will then facilitate gym sessions. If a patient would like to access the gym, please speak to a member of staff. Patients would require some comfortable clothing and appropriate footwear.

Visiting times

Cherry Ward recognises how important it is for patients to spend time with their family/friends/carers and have signed up to ‘John’s Campaign’. Therefore visiting times are usually flexible to meet the needs of patients and their family/friends/carers. However, due to current Covid restrictions, CWP maintains a slightly amended visiting guidance: visitors are asked to contact the ward prior to their visit to arrange an appropriate visiting time. At the moment only one identified person is allowed to visit the patient on the ward at any time. Visitors are asked to wear a facemask throughout their visit and maintain good hand hygiene when entering and leaving the ward. During their visit we will ask visitors to maintain a ​​​​​social distance of 2 metres where possible. Visit times are restricted to 30 minutes per visit. We kindly ask visitors who are feeling unwell or show signs of Covid (such as: a new persistent cough, a raised temperature or loss of taste or smell) not to visit the ward.

Meal times

Meal times are an important part of the day. We have protected meal times on the ward, to allow patients the time to eat their meals without too many distractions. There are three set meals each day as follows:

  • Breakfast – flexible when patients prefer
  • Lunch – 12pm - 1pm
  • Tea – 5pm - 6pm

Patients are offered a choice of food for each meal. A selection of drinks and snacks including fruit are available for patients throughout the day. Please speak to a member of staff to assist you. Patients and family/ friends/carers are also welcome to bring some snacks/drinks in for patients of their preference. Although please note that we are unable to reheat food for patients. Please label items brought into the ward.

We ask that you please refrain from giving other patients food or drinks, without speaking with ward staff first, as they may have additional dietary needs or allergies.

If a patient has any dietary requirements such as food allergies, specific nutritional needs, or cultural/religious requirements, please discuss these with staff as we can cater for a wide variety of dietary requirements. We also ask family/friends/carers to provide some information in the life story booklet about patients’ food and drink preferences. This can then be used to guide staff providing meals and drinks to patients should patients have difficulty in expressing their choices clearly.

Personal safety and security

The door on Cherry Ward is locked for patients’ safety. Staff are able to open the door to let people on and off the ward. Please do not let other people on or off the ward without checking with a member of staff first. Patients may be able to leave the ward depending on their presentation, needs and legal status. Patients may require support from family/ friends/carers or staff when leaving the ward environment.

Patients have their own bedroom on the ward. Bedroom doors are usually closed and access to patient bedrooms is via a fob key only, which all staff have. This is to ensure that personal belongings within bedroom areas are protected when patients have left their rooms. Patients can ask staff to provide access to their bedroom whenever they wish to. Patients may bring mobile phones to Cherry Ward, however staff are not responsible for the safety of these. Mobile phones may not be used for the purpose of taking photographs, or making video and/or audio recordings of other patients, visitors or staff.

If patients or family/friends/carers feel unhappy or physically, sexually or emotionally unsafe on Cherry Ward, please discuss this with staff. You can also contact the Patient Advice and Liaison Service (“PALS”).

Gender

CWP is committed to providing patients with same-sex accommodation to safeguard their privacy and dignity when in hospital. This means providing same-sex sleeping areas, bathrooms and toilet facilities. All bedrooms are single to protect patients’ privacy and dignity. All patients on Cherry Ward have rooms with en-suite facilities

Religious and spiritual care

We would like to ensure that religious and spiritual care needs of patients are respected and supported whilst on Cherry Ward. Patients are invited to share any information about their beliefs that they feel relevant with staff. Family/friends/carers are also encouraged to provide further information about this in the life story booklet. This information will be incorporated within the patient’s care plan as appropriate. If family/friends/carers would like to discuss this in more detail, please speak to a member of staff.

We have a small chapel / multi-faith prayer room downstairs at Bowmere hospital which patients may access; there is usually a weekly Sunday service which takes place in this chapel. Due to Covid restrictions these are currently not taking place. Please speak with staff if you would like support to access the multi-faith room. Bibles and other religious texts can be made available on request. Patients are also welcome to bring their own religious texts or items to the ward for personal use.

We have a hospital chaplaincy team, which regularly visits Cherry Ward. However if you would like someone from your usual place of worship to visit you on the ward, this can be facilitated. Please speak to staff if you require support to make arrangements for this.

Cafés and shops

There are vending machines available at Bowmere Hospital to buy snacks and drinks.

Triangle of care

The Triangle of Care is a three-way partnership between the patient, their family/friends/carers, and professionals. With all voices being heard to support and influence care and treatment, this will produce the best chance of recovery. CWP is part of the national programme for Triangle of Care and all members of CWP staff are actively encouraged to promote this three way partnership, as part of their everyday working practice.

Activities

 

Occupational Therapy (OT) staff work with all patients on Cherry Ward and will assess individuals’ needs. We use meaningful activities to assess and support patients’ skills. OT staff work on Cherry Ward between Monday-Friday (except bank holidays), 8:30am-4:30pm.

The OT team facilitate a weekly programme of activities on the ward, incorporating group and 1:1 activities. Possible group activities include baking, quizzes, social groups, reminiscence, craft, music, gardening, exercises, games and poetry. The majority of groups take place on the ward in the lounge, dining room, or garden. Patients will be encouraged and supported to engage in groups and activities that are meaningful to and of interest to them. This forms part of patients’ assessment and intervention on the ward.

A timetable of daily activities planned for each day is displayed on the activity board in the lounge. The groups are planned based on patients’ needs and preferences. However we offer a flexible approach, therefore the activities planned for the week are subject to change, to adapt to the changing presentations and wishes of patients.

Patients are encouraged to share information about hobbies and activities that are of interest and value to them. Family/friends/carers are also asked to provide further information in the life story booklet. Resources are available on the ward for patients to use at any time including during evenings and weekends, such as books, newspapers, music, and television.

If you have any questions about or would like to make any suggestions for groups or 1:1 activities, please speak to OT staff.

Additional person-centred tools

To support patients’ orientation around the ward we would like family/ friends/carers to bring in a photograph of the patient that they would recognise as being themselves (this may be an older photograph or a more recent one). This can be scanned and the original one returned. This photograph will be displayed by the patient’s bedroom door.

Family/friends/carers can also bring in additional photographs of the patient or people, pets or places that are important to the patient and can help them orientate and reminiscence.

It would be useful if family/friends/carers are able to complete the life story booklet and send in a photograph of the patient as soon as possible please after the patients’ admission.

Modes of treatment

A multi-disciplinary team approach is used on the ward to provide holistic assessment and treatment, incorporating use of medication as well as therapeutic interventions. The team working with patients on Cherry Ward includes:

  • Doctors
  • Nurses
  • Clinical Support Workers (CSWs)
  • Pharmacy staff (Pharmacists and Pharmacy Technicians)
  • Occupational Therapy staff (Occupational Therapists [OTs] and Occupational Therapy Technical Instructors [OTTIs])
  • There is also access to other health professionals as required, which may include: Podiatry
  • Physiotherapy
  • Dietetics
  • Speech and Language Therapy (SALT)

Patients will be allocated a member of staff working in the community team, who will assist in discharge planning and provide support following discharge from Cherry Ward. The Cherry Ward team work closely with staff in the community team.

If patients and/or family/friends/carers would like a second opinion, please speak to a member of staff regarding this.

CWP covers a large geographical area and there are two other wards within the trust for people with dementia. We will endeavour for patients to be located in a hospital closest to their home, however there may be occasions were patients are admitted to another ward within CWP.

Care planning and carer involvement

We would like patients, family/friends/carers, and staff to work together with care planning. A care plan will be developed with each patient, outlining their care and treatment. Patients and family/friends/carers will be provided with a copy of the patients’ care plan and are encouraged to be involved in developing this. If you would like to discuss your relative’s/friend’s care, there are a number of ways this can be done.

CPA meeting - patients and/or family/friends/carers will be invited to a Care Programme Approach (“CPA”) meeting a short period into the patient’s admission. This involves different people who are involved with the patient’s care and treatment, including ward staff, staff in the community team, and family/friends/carers, coming together to discuss what led to admission to Cherry Ward, how the patient is on the ward, and to start making plans for the patient’s discharge from Cherry Ward. If family/friends/carers wish to discuss something confidential which you feel is important to the patient’s care, please let staff know and we can arrange to discuss this with you.

MDT meeting - multi-disciplinary team meetings (“MDT”) are held on a weekly basis to review each patient’s care and treatment. Patients and/or family/friends/carers are able to attend this meeting. Please speak with ward staff in advance to book a time​​​​​​​ to attend the meeting. If you are unable to attend but would like to provide information in advance of the meeting, please speak to a member of staff and we can record your comments for input at the meeting. You can also speak to staff to receive an update following the meeting.

Discharge planning

Discharge from Cherry Ward is planned as part of the assessment and treatment process via multi-disciplinary team review. We encourage patient and family/friend/carer involvement in this. Assessment and treatment plans will be discussed with patients and their family/friends/ carers, and discharge plans and aftercare options will also be discussed and agreed. Patients and family/friends/carers will be given the opportunity to ask questions, receive support and discuss any concerns. We hold a short “red/green” meeting each Monday morning and Wednesday morning. This is a short meeting amongst ward staff to discuss each patient’s progress and to determine who is ready for discharge from the ward.

Life story work

Life story work forms an important and valued aspect of care on the ward and we are keen to promote the use of this with people living with dementia. Patients are encouraged to share information about their life story with staff. Family/friends/carers are asked to complete a life story booklet. We also ask for some labelled photographs if possible, which can be scanned and the original copies returned. Please return information and photographs to the Ward Clerk on the ward. Information and photographs will be used to complete a life story book with the patient, with their agreement. This assists staff to get to know the patient better as an individual and are used as the basis of reminiscence with patients, to help facilitate meaningful interactions. It will also guide the choice of activities facilitated on the ward. Life story work completed belongs to the patient and will be taken by them when leaving the ward. Therefore this may support other people working with the patient in the future to understand more about them.